Good morning... interesting stuff actually. The first half of what you said to me is really fascinating because we are in a lot more agreement than you might think. Those are things that are difficult to share with people because many brand you a nut without even looking at the scripture.

I think we do disagree about the second half however. That's okay if we don't see eye to eye on everything though. I find what you posted interesting, but I don't think so. This kind of goes along with a "humanity-centered" universe, and I just don't think that it is. You see a difference in Heaven in Revelation 4 and 5 between the angels and the Saints (now that one Saint sent to John to explain things was a Saint... but he was a messenger just like if the Lord sent you to someone to share a word from Him you would during that time be a messenger or angel... but that's not what you see as the majority of scripture)... which continues on through the discourse of Revelation in Heaven... you see angels as one group and the Saints which are given judgment eventually (Daniel 7 also) out of every kindred, tongue, nation, etc. as another.

I think that this tries to make humanity the main form of life that God created, and I just don't think that scripture bears that out. I think that man was the most recent creation by Yahweh actually... a special creation that God breathed His own Spirit into and gave mankind dominion over the Earth. The reason being is that the Earth had been the world that Satan when he was Haylayl had ruled... the life on it had been destroyed and Satan had been cast down here and man had been put here (the reflection of God) to literally rule over him. Sin has warped things though... but the process is working out. God knew and had it planned out.

You see, it is much more than just the Earth that is being cleansed, but the entirety of the created universe. We only see the part that includes us in the Bible. But we see glimpses of the rest of it when you consider the angels in the middle of the Tribulation being forced down to earth (the fallen ones), and the fact that they aren't here yet.

You need to consider also that the New Testament declares that we are made a little lower than the angels. Jesus in 1 Thessalonians 4, when He comes to get the church will bring those who are dead in Christ with them and they shall be resurrected first. You read in 1 Corinthians15 about the kind of bodies that they have. That is us... the fact that we are returning to the Earth with Jesus to reign with Him a thousand years is the reason that we have to be resurrected to have reality in the 4 dimensions of what we think of as the physical universe... otherwise a soul is like the wind here on this level. At the First Resurrection, we will be give a spiritual body and said to be "as the angels"... equal to the power and ability, but it does not say that we are the angels. Angels already have spiritual bodies and can be like the wind or quite physical right now. Jesus is the first fruits of the first resurrection and when that catching away (harpazio) occurs, we shall be like Him.

That's from the top of my head this morning. I find the idea interesting though that you give, and I will give it some more consideration actually... do some more study. But at the top of my head... those are the first things that seem to jump out at me over it.

This is good discussion Karen... cool. I have been feeling pretty rough and this is the closest my mind has been to being clear in a couple of days. Thank you for the stimulation of my neurons today! God bless you!

FireStorm:rainbowsun