Yeah, its interesting, but I think that I need to point you to some older studies to keep me from having to repeating myself.

I was about to post lesson 4, but I will take some time with this briefly first.

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I'm not sure what you mean here do you mean between the 24 elders and the angels ? Do you mean that the 24 elders are saints ? ( I think that the 24 elders are the 12 disciples and the 12 sons of Jacob and that they are saints ). Do you have a study that explains what you mean by a difference more ?what the difference is ?


Actually, I do... its part of the Revelation Commentary... but I believe also that 12 represent the Old and 12 represent the New Covenant, but if you will notice in chapter 5 that same group of elders becomes a countless number out of every kindred, nation, and tongue that has been redeemed by Jesus. The Angels are also mentioned there in the same chapter as separate... tell you what... you look it up.

In Daniel 7... and look in Revelation 20 you see them sitting in the same seats of judgment (thrones)... the same as the 24 Elders sitting on thrones... they become a huge number. I think you would like my coming commentary (not trying to be an ad here... but it is verse by verse... you would like it).

The Saints or Elders sit on thrones. The word elders is "never" used for created angels... never. They are the redeemed. Angels cannot be redeemed, and scriptures say that they desire to understand the Gospel and grace.

The angels are mentioned, but the song in Revelation 5 about being redeemed from the great number is the redeemed... the elders out every tongue, etc. These are a different group than the also mentioned angels. Break it down, its there.

I had forgotten the Corinthians note on judging angels.

In your Daniel 7:10 reference, go one verse higher to verse 9 and look... the thrones (plural) were cast down. The Elders sit on thrones... the number that...

Well, lets look at the Revelation 5 quote in conext...


Revelation 5:8-11 " 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; "
-this is not just the 12 Apostles and 12 from the 12 Tribes. This is out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (ethnos... a nation other than Israel). This is more than Israel... as you see the angels and the elders and all together becoming a great number. Here's a hint too... the elders or saints have thrones and are joint heirs with Jesus Christ and sit on thrones. The angels always stand before the Lord.

"10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. - angels are not kings and priests (see Revelation 1-3), but the church is... those who are redeemed and overcome with Christ. This is the song of the redeemed. It is not just the Jewish and Israelis, but a number you see below this that is expanded. Daniel 7 speaks of it too... Revelation 20 goes there too.

11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; "

Look at this... Revelation 20:4 " And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

otay now... got to hurry so I can post the other lesson...

As to the age of the Earth, I will be going over a full study of that eventually. It will be highly charged I know, but I have covered some of this already in the study on the Devil and the past... take a look in the archives if you will.

I believe that the earth is much older than most tradition in Christianity says. The Earth is old in comparison to mankind. If you like, we might can do that after angels... but read the sections on Halayl and his throne on earth. But you will notice that in the Garden, the serpent was already there... Adam had been given dominion over all that was on the Earth including the devil that had fallen to earth. Man had dominion over him. That is why God made man the way that he did and put him there.

I think mankind (Adam) is on the order of 6000-10000 years, but the Earth is much older. The dinosaurs... yeah... well read that archived study and its covered. I will do an in-depth study on the Age of the Earth and previous eons sometime.

As Halayl was ruler and had a throne on the earth that he wanted to exalt as the Most High's, he fell back here where his throne was... as God in Genesis 1:2- starts bringing life back to the Earth and restoring it from the darkness and the flood that had taken it, he puts man as the last thing created in His image with His own life breathed into him... and gives Adam dominion.

You had so much in your statement... I've really got to go... but the thing about the fallen angels coming in the middle of the Tribulation is quickly here:

Revelation 12:7-13 " 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].


Sounds almost like you would like an intense Revelation/Daniel and Age of the Earth study. Hmmmm...

I am about to release a commentary cdrom that covers all of that (once again, not trying to be some kind of commercial). I think it would almost be easier to do it that way considering this covers a "whole lot" of ground. I have to go now and post the new study.

FireStorm